ColoradoWaterfowl Forum Index
  • USAWaterfowl.com

  • COWF Site

  • Field Staff Articles


  • Please support our sponsors


     ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
     ProfileChat RoomFAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
    Guns

     
    Post new topic   Reply to topic    ColoradoWaterfowl Forum Index -> Gun Dogs
    View previous topic :: View next topic  
    Author Message
    buffsrocks
    Newbie


    Joined: 02 Dec 2015
    Posts: 10

    PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:28 PM    Post subject: Guns Reply with quote

    Probably been asked or talked about many times but I'm kind of new on here. I've been working on training with my boy Clark. He's been great working with bumpers and I've used the "duck" training bumper as well. He'll retrieve and stay next to me till I tell him to go. The problem I'm having is he won't stay steady next to me when he hears the gun go off. Not scared or anything he just wants to run and retrieve soon as he hears the gun, like too eager. Is there something I can do to help keep him steady when the gun goes off so he knows not to go yet. Apologies if all my lingo is not on par with what he's doing, this is my first lab and first time training a dog and my first time with all this. Thanks guys.
    Back to top
    View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
    spaightlabs1
    True Killa'


    Joined: 12 Aug 2004
    Posts: 8462
    Location: centennial, co

    PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:59 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

    congrats on the new dawg, I sure hope Clark's name involves Griswold as well!

    Not sure if you are training alone or have access to someone to help you you for a bit, but if you can focus on Clark while someone else throws the bumper and shoots the gun/popper.

    I'd use a short walkup leash or just a loop of rope thru his collar to hold him while there is a lot of noise/excitement going on, let him sit for 5 or 10 seconds after the gun goes off, slowly remove the lead and send him on his name. If he breaks, call him back, have your helper pick up the bird and re-do it.
    _________________
    I love my country but I fear my government.

    Don't trust whitey.
    Back to top
    View user's profile Send private message
    buffsrocks
    Newbie


    Joined: 02 Dec 2015
    Posts: 10

    PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:05 PM    Post subject: Guns Reply with quote

    Yes he's named after Clark Griswold, he was a christmas present and we wanted him to have a name associated with christmas, haha. I do have someone to help me. I'll give that a try, I appreciate the advice.
    Back to top
    View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
    Warthog
    Hunter


    Joined: 30 Sep 2004
    Posts: 181
    Location: Sterling

    PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:52 PM    Post subject: denial Reply with quote

    What Greg said is great advice in that the dog has got to listen in order to get the reward (the retrieve).

    IMO you need to start doing "denials" with your pup. Denials teach the dog to be steady and also teach the dog that not every retrieve is theirs. Look up "denials" for dog training to get a full explanation.

    Briefly, a denial is sitting your dog, throwing the bumper, leaving your dog on sit, and you or a helper picking up the bumper. I had a pup that got about eight denials for every one retrieve. Denials steady the dog and teaches them that you are in control. If the dog breaks they do not get the bumper. In my experience using a bunch of denials really gets the dog excited to retrieve even more than giving them every bumper.

    Denials can also be done while hunting. My dog does not get every retrieve when in the field. If there is a bird that is easy to pick up without the dog there will be a denial in the field. Denials are always part of the training process even when the dog is fully trained and mature. IMO even older / trained dogs should get 2 - 3 denials during training sessions.
    _________________
    Warthog
    Back to top
    View user's profile Send private message
    richroux
    Hunter


    Joined: 06 Jul 2004
    Posts: 162

    PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:46 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Buffsrocks,
    Don't know where you live or if you are willing to take a little drive. But if driving out to Teal Lodge a couple miles north of Orchard (on Hwy 144 west of Ft. Morgan), either Sat Aug 11 or Sun Aug 12, you could have the opportunity to bend the ear of a whole bunch of retriever training duck hunters and watch a bunch of dogs run, most of which will have been trained by their owners. Platte Valley Hunting Retriever Club is holding their 2nd hunt test of the season for retrievers.

    Three levels will be tested. Started is for the young dogs and they don't have to be steady yet, but can be restrained as the bird goes up and the gun goes off. I'm sure about 99.9% of them would be happy to talk to you about what they are doing in training to get the steady down. Someone else shoots the gun for Started handler. Started gets over earlier than Seasoned or Finished so I'd try to get there 9:30 or so. There will be a land and a water series.

    While you are there, you might find it very enjoyable to watch a little Seasoned (middle level and really solid duck dog) and Finished (pretty much bragging rights on the swamp that can do it all.

    Seasoned dogs must be steady, retrieve a double that they see. Be handled to a duck they didn't see fall at a distance of 60 yards. They shouldn't switch to a bird thrown as they come back with another retrieve. And they need to be steady to a walkup where the bird is launched as they are walking at heel.


    Finished dog is all the above, plus must do triple marks, pick up birds in order the judges specify, not the order they fell. Run longer marks. Honor another dog off lead while that dog is retrieving, etc.


    I think you will find a bunch of friendly retriever owning hunters that will be happy to talk to you and share information.


    Joining a retriever club can be a great assist to a new trainer. There are other clubs in the area, and if you are not in the Denver/northern Front Range area a number of clubs around the state. PVHRC has training days and club events and would welcome you. www.pvhrc.com Also a Facebook page.

    If you go, there will be signs on Rd 2 at the Teal Lodge entrance. Just drive up to the lodge and probabaly someone there to direct you to where you want to go. If not, drive the trails and look for a group of people near a cluster of cars. That's the gallery and they can tell you if you are at test level you want to watch or help you find what you are looking for. There will be directional signs to the different tests also.

    Good luck with your dog. Lots of fun ahead of you.

    Rich
    _________________
    First you make a Roux, then you go duck hunting.
    Back to top
    View user's profile Send private message
    richroux
    Hunter


    Joined: 06 Jul 2004
    Posts: 162

    PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:48 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Buffsrocks,
    Don't know where you live or if you are willing to take a little drive. But if driving out to Teal Lodge a couple miles north of Orchard (on Hwy 144 west of Ft. Morgan), either Sat Aug 11 or Sun Aug 12, you could have the opportunity to bend the ear of a whole bunch of retriever training duck hunters and watch a bunch of dogs run, most of which will have been trained by their owners. Platte Valley Hunting Retriever Club is holding their 2nd hunt test of the season for retrievers.

    Three levels will be tested. Started is for the young dogs and they don't have to be steady yet, but can be restrained as the bird goes up and the gun goes off. I'm sure about 99.9% of them would be happy to talk to you about what they are doing in training to get the steady down. Someone else shoots the gun for Started handler. Started gets over earlier than Seasoned or Finished so I'd try to get there 9:30 or so. There will be a land and a water series.

    While you are there, you might find it very enjoyable to watch a little Seasoned (middle level and really solid duck dog) and Finished (pretty much bragging rights on the swamp that can do it all.

    Seasoned dogs must be steady, retrieve a double that they see. Be handled to a duck they didn't see fall at a distance of 60 yards. They shouldn't switch to a bird thrown as they come back with another retrieve. And they need to be steady to a walkup where the bird is launched as they are walking at heel.


    Finished dog is all the above, plus must do triple marks, pick up birds in order the judges specify, not the order they fell. Run longer marks. Honor another dog off lead while that dog is retrieving, etc.


    I think you will find a bunch of friendly retriever owning hunters that will be happy to talk to you and share information.


    Joining a retriever club can be a great assist to a new trainer. There are other clubs in the area, and if you are not in the Denver/northern Front Range area a number of clubs around the state. PVHRC has training days and club events and would welcome you. www.pvhrc.com Also a Facebook page.

    If you go, there will be signs on Rd 2 at the Teal Lodge entrance. Just drive up to the lodge and probabaly someone there to direct you to where you want to go. If not, drive the trails and look for a group of people near a cluster of cars. That's the gallery and they can tell you if you are at test level you want to watch or help you find what you are looking for. There will be directional signs to the different tests also.

    Good luck with your dog. Lots of fun ahead of you.

    Rich
    _________________
    First you make a Roux, then you go duck hunting.
    Back to top
    View user's profile Send private message
    spaightlabs1
    True Killa'


    Joined: 12 Aug 2004
    Posts: 8462
    Location: centennial, co

    PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:21 AM    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Rich - GREAT suggestion!

    PVHRC is a bunch of great folks and literally hundreds of years of training experience among the membership.

    If you can train as part of a group it will benefit you and Clark tremendously.
    _________________
    I love my country but I fear my government.

    Don't trust whitey.
    Back to top
    View user's profile Send private message
    buffsrocks
    Newbie


    Joined: 02 Dec 2015
    Posts: 10

    PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:43 AM    Post subject: Guns Reply with quote

    Everyone thank you so much for all the suggestions. I have done the denial thing where I go get the bumper and he will stay...hence the showing him not all retrieves are his, and he's done really well with that.
    Rich, thank you for letting me know about the competition and the ability to go get tips and see how others work their dogs. Really appreciate everyone responding and the suggestions it helps a lot!!
    Back to top
    View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
    richroux
    Hunter


    Joined: 06 Jul 2004
    Posts: 162

    PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:28 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Buffsrocks,
    Just to be clear the PV retriever hunt test isn't really a competition. The dogs are judged against a standard, not against each other, so everyone running can root for the other dogs and handlers running. Judging is Pass/Fail. It's not like a field trial. Tests are more hunting scenario related, distances closer to hunting reality. In the upper two levels the handler shoots the shotgun (blanks) at the thrown birds.

    You've gotten some good advice. To help get him steady faster, it really helps if he never gets the reward of the retrieve if he breaks. If you are hand throwing, you can guarantee that as Greg said. If you have a helper throwing, have the throws land very close to the thrower so that if Clark breaks, the thrower can ALWAYS beat the dog to the bumper and pick it up so he doesn't get the reward.

    Keep at it. It will come.

    Good luck.
    _________________
    First you make a Roux, then you go duck hunting.
    Back to top
    View user's profile Send private message
    kevin eskam
    Pro Hunter


    Joined: 15 Jul 2010
    Posts: 258
    Location: pierce, Colorado

    PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:49 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

    First off How old is the pup?

    Steadyness takes time, Dogs understand a "squence of events" so when you train do the same thing say the same words evry time.

    The Squence should be Heel, sit, mark, dog!
    On the retrieve Here, heel, sit, drop! when you train very good Obedience to a high standard you will get what you desire, if the dog is young teach and teach and teach 10 minutes a day, Obedience every day, Labs are very smart and get it quick, BUT patience on your part will get you there quicker then letting the dog see your frustrations,

    Enjoy your pup!! and yes Platte valley is a great club to learn from, highly reccomended,
    _________________
    HRCH Satins Jumpin Jedi MH
    HRCH 4x GMPR KBs Snakey Jake of Poudre River MH
    HRCH 4XGMPR KBs Right to the Point IKE SH
    HRCH MPR KBs its Showtime Star JH
    HRCH KBs loaded to go Allie SH
    HRCH 2XGMPR KBs Blazen White Thunder SH
    Back to top
    View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
    dukhnter7
    Pro Hunter


    Joined: 16 Dec 2004
    Posts: 378
    Location: Thornton

    PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:58 AM    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Totally agree with Kevin. Obedience is key! Sit has got to be SOLID and that takes time. Every time my dog struggled in the field (retrieves, marks, blinds, upland...) I went back to basic obedience for a solid week without retrieves. Got back in the field and everything was cleaned up without ever throwing a retrieve or seeing a bird. Obedience focuses the dog.

    Good luck!
    _________________
    Be at one with nature.......then marinate it!!
    Back to top
    View user's profile Send private message
    Chessie
    Pro Hunter


    Joined: 14 Apr 2006
    Posts: 470
    Location: Parker, CO

    PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:24 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Take a step back and work on his basics, not ready for gun work. If he's jumping then his sit command is not firmly implanted in his brain. Sit means sit....doesn't matter if its food, doorbell, gun...
    _________________
    "Bird dogs plead with you to imagine the great things you could be doing together. Their delight is a lesson in the bliss of living." ~ Thomas McGuane
    Back to top
    View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
    Display posts from previous:   
    Post new topic   Reply to topic    ColoradoWaterfowl Forum Index -> Gun Dogs All times are GMT
    Page 1 of 1

     
    Jump to:  
    You cannot post new topics in this forum
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum
    You cannot edit your posts in this forum
    You cannot delete your posts in this forum
    You cannot vote in polls in this forum


    Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
    image linking to 100 Top Birds and Waterfowl Sites Waterfowl web-sites Vote for Us at The Outdoor Lodge's Top Hunting Sites