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    Ice Eater fuel issue...looking for ideas
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    JDK
    Pro Hunter


    Joined: 15 Apr 2013
    Posts: 462
    Location: Larimer County

    PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:58 PM    Post subject: Ice Eater fuel issue...looking for ideas Reply with quote

    Hoping somebody might have a tip or two for me!

    Running a Honda eu2000i inverter generator to power a 1hp Eater. The internal tank is .95 gal. I bought a B.E.R.G. 6 gal extended run tank. Works like a charm with never a hiccup, but at an avg of .16 gal per hour runtime, I either have to 1) fuel up everyday, 2) every other day, but must be less than 48 hrs, which requires long lunch breaks from work or leaving work early, or 3) every other day at or around 48 hrs knowing it'll shut off before I get there and I might loose valuable open water.

    So, to the problem. Figured a bigger tank would be the obvious no-brainer solution, so picked up a 12 gal tank. I talked with the place I got the B.E.R.G. system from and they assured me that any marine tank would work with their cap and hose. It doesn't. The dang thing shuts down. My best guess is that somewhere along the way the vacuum system just isn't strong enough to keep the draw and pull from this larger tank. It's hard to estimate how long it runs before it shuts down, but I'm guessing somewhere between 12-16 hours based on fuel consumed and ice build up when it does start to refreeze. A possible clue might have to do with the fact that the internal tank remains full. These vacuum systems keep the internal tank full as it draws from the external tank. I would think if it's loosing draw that the genny would go ahead and run from fuel in the internal tank and when that emptied, she'd shut down. That's not the case. The fuel level will drop appropriately in the external tank, at some point it will shut down, and the fuel level remains full in the internal tank. WTF? Oh, and it's not oil level. I keep a close eye on that.

    Any thoughts/advice/troubleshoot ideas?

    It's been worth the effort with regard to scratching out some birds, but man, it is sure is upping the "grind" to an already tough season and these daily trips are kicking me and my wallet in the maracas.
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    sbarcewski
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    Joined: 01 Jan 2006
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    Location: Erie, CO

    PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:58 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

    1st off I am no genius when it comes to fuel systems. That being said if you think it is a vacuum system issue, could you set it up to be more of a gravity fed system?
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    JDK
    Pro Hunter


    Joined: 15 Apr 2013
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    Location: Larimer County

    PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:29 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Great point and one I've researched. Everything I've read says the vacuum systems shouldn't need the old school height advantage, but gonna try it. As your response came in, I was in the shop rigging up a 2' stand for the 12 gal tank. Thanks for the spitballing!
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    JDK
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    Joined: 15 Apr 2013
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    Location: Larimer County

    PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:30 AM    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Checked it last night. Had shut off again. Internal tank full. External tank dropped a bit. Oil good.
    Checked this evening. Had shut off again. Internal tank full. External tank dropped a bit. Oil good.

    Just don't get what is causing shutdown before using the internal tank fuel. Vapor lock?

    Put the external tank on a stand to test the gravity-flow theory. Will see tomorrow. Rolling Eyes
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    Wade C
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    Joined: 07 Jul 2004
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    PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:39 AM    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I dont know a single thing about the genset or the tank setups used... but just thinking out loud here - is there any chance that the "vacuum" created is not strong enough to pull the fuel, which in turn creates a vacuum lock of the fuel system and it starves for fuel once some fuel has been used and the vacuum increases in the larger tank?

    The excessive vacuum in the additional tank could potentially explain why the fuel level in the on-board tank is always full, but yet it dies after only using some from the add on tank (if its pulling the fuel through the tanks in series rather than parallel).

    Wade
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    spaightlabs1
    True Killa'


    Joined: 12 Aug 2004
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    PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:58 AM    Post subject: Reply with quote

    It's 60 degrees out, you still forming new ice? rotfl
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    GANDER
    A.K.A Babe Winkleworm


    Joined: 07 Jul 2004
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    Location: Colorado

    PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:20 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Hill patroleum will refuel it daily with their truck might be costly but you can enjoy your sandwich.
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    bldmtnrider
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    PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:45 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Curious to see if the stand fixed your problem. Pretty much with every engine I have ever used with a float bowl it requires either gravity or a fuel pump to fill the float bowl. A standard float bowl carb can't really suck enough vacuum to pull fuel in as that suction force just gets lost via the carb air intake manifold.

    I would guess that getting that external fuel tank up on a stand should fix your problem. If the bottom of your external tank is above the bottom of your genny tank and you are still having issues, make sure your external tank is properly vented.

    Also, have you confirmed your ice eater hasn't slipped down in the mud. If you have mud too close to the prop you might be overloading the gen. Hard to tell as they usually go into overload mode and just idle, but if it dies while idling you are not going to see the yellow overload light on the gen pannel.
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    Blue.Ghost
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    Joined: 07 Jan 2011
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    PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:11 PM    Post subject: similiar issue Reply with quote

    We had a similar issue with our setup using a Honda 2000. It would use about 3-4 gallons out of the external maybe and shut off. We tried everything. We finally switch out the tank with a new one (this setup had been used for a few years prior with no issues) and it has worked fine since. We do have our external tank higher than the generator. Good luck!
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    Luv2Decoy
    Elite Hunter


    Joined: 21 Jul 2004
    Posts: 2001
    Location: Thornton/Brighton

    PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:07 AM    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I am not being a smart ass but did you have the cap vent open?

    I have forgotten to do it more than once.
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    JDK
    Pro Hunter


    Joined: 15 Apr 2013
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    Location: Larimer County

    PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:14 AM    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Love the feedback and all the dialogue. Thanks, fellas. Will definitely revisit comments and ideas and some of my unsuccessful attempts at rectifying the sitch after the Sunday closer. Obviously not much of an issue with it hitting 70 degrees today, but I think it's a worthy topic to suss out not just for me but for any other Ice Eater fools/Einsteins. Sure appreciate the feedback. Gotta work a 1/2 day tomorrow, but I'm gonna hunt tomorrow afternoon and all day Sunday even if it's the dumbest thing a guy could do. Still tons of geese around (I'm northern FR between FoCo and Wellington) and I love hanging out with and running my dog. The wife has called it. She's done. But ol Rocket and me are gonna see it out to the bitter sweet end!
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    JDK
    Pro Hunter


    Joined: 15 Apr 2013
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    Location: Larimer County

    PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:05 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

    spaightlabs1 wrote:
    It's 60 degrees out, you still forming new ice? rotfl


    rotfl rotfl Yeah, it got hot there for a bit, then watched my little slice of heaven freeze right back up. Ice was 8-14" and those slabs just sank a few inches during the warmup days and the "open water" was just sitting on ice cube trays. Fun/interesting/frustrating to see how fast a couple of nights back in the 20s could start locking things back up.
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    JDK
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    Joined: 15 Apr 2013
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    Location: Larimer County

    PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:09 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

    GANDER wrote:
    Hill patroleum will refuel it daily with their truck might be costly but you can enjoy your sandwich.


    Ain't a sandwich good enough for that kinda scratch! Plus, I eat on the run. I know some local farm kids that I probably coulda weaseled into helping on a $hort dime and they coulda bought new wrestling shoes or had some date money for the weekends, but I was determined to grind my own axe!
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    JDK
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    Joined: 15 Apr 2013
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    Location: Larimer County

    PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:18 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

    bldmtnrider wrote:
    Curious to see if the stand fixed your problem.

    ...make sure your external tank is properly vented.

    Also, have you confirmed your ice eater hasn't slipped down in the mud.


    Quote 1: nope. Didn't work. Still shut down.
    Quote 2: I'm willing to get filleted on this point. See response below.
    Quote 3: yep. I'm in shallow water and it's mucky for sure, but monitored it closely, stomped around to make a bell hole often, pulled it up and checked it often. The draw was strong enough to actually make channels behind and in front of the prop well before I tried the new tank when it was running solid on the 6 gal.
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    JDK
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    Joined: 15 Apr 2013
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    PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:22 PM    Post subject: Re: similiar issue Reply with quote

    Blue.Ghost wrote:
    We finally switch out the tank with a new one (this setup had been used for a few years prior with no issues) and it has worked fine since.


    So...the tank that went south on you just aged and something lost functionality? The 12 gal I've been trying was brand spanking new from a reputable marine supplier.
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